Love or hate Terminator: Dark Fate, it certainly started a conversation about who, if anyone, is the central focus in the Terminator franchise – is it the eponymous Terminator? A killer cyborg, mass-produced by the malevolent SkyNet, with the sole objective of aiding in the termination of the human race?
Is it John Connor? The heroic future leader of the human resistance and savior of mankind; the one destined to destroy SkyNet?
Or is it the mother warrior? Sarah Connor was always very much the heart of the science fiction saga – I mean, no Sarah = no John, right?
Dark Fate put the spotlight on the prematurely terminated mother of the future, Sarah Connor, a character who had been bumped off somewhere in the exposition of the third movie, Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines (and no, no-one was happy about that decision back then either).
Fans cried out for a do-over for the legendary Sarah, and T6 was poised to deliver; with the studios promising to wipe away the three contentious instalments which followed the much loved The Terminator (1984) and Terminator 2: Judgment Day – but was that decanonisation at the expense of the Terminator mythos… ?
The rumors started early, with fans asking the inevitable question of “Where is John Connor?”, and so followed the leaks to reddit, leaks which described a Terminator franchise without the shadowy and iconic General Connor, but he wasn’t simply absent or put to the side – he was to die and set the wheels in motion for a new hero to be born. Dani Ramos.
Was that decision easy for the writers and director?
“Oddly enough, not Jim, not a single writer, uh, not Linda, not anybody – but perhaps Eddie Furlong, had anything at all to say but ‘Oh yeah, this seems like the right way to do it.’ “
Tim Miller – TIFF | Transcribed by TheTerminatorFans.com
Story-wise it seems that the production, which had started off without a script (and also began filming without a script), was very much set on removing John Connor from the equation from the very start, and replacing him (please use the comment section below to debate the word ‘replace’) with a brand new character.
Was that move the right one? Logically and thematically; given the very title of ‘Terminator’, hmm… maybe. Although I have always felt that the Terminator franchise has been consequence-light since the second movie (Sarah dying off-screen in T3 wasn’t a consequence, it was lazy writing), offing John Connor in T:DF really didn’t sit right with me.
Was it the right thing to do in the Terminator universe? No. As with Sarah Connor’s death in Terminator 3 – it was also lazy storytelling.
Year: 2017. Location: Writers room. Hollywood.
The group of people assembled around the large oval table sit nursing a collective frown.
“Any ideas?” The tall man asks, his face pale and smooth with a clutch of fine lines beginning to gather at the corners of his eyes.
One man murmurs, his voice barely audible, he clears his throat and repeats himself:
“You said it’s a sequel to T2??” He asks.
“Yeah, the others don’t count. THIS is the true Terminator 3.” Says a stockier man, eyes twinkling with a curious light.
“Um… ” A hand goes up eagerly, with an idea.
“We kill John Connor!” The interruption is brief and to the point. Heads tilt, chairs swivel, eyes searching for the voice, the face, the unthinkable.
“Yes! Yes Yes Yes! Then we can do whatever we want! Wherever we want! With whomever we want! It’ll be our own universe… almost.” The smooth-faced man’s excitement is palpable and infectious. It’s relieving.
The room falls back into silence. “do do do, do do, do do do, do do… ” The Skype tone breaks the silence.
For me, John Connor is a character who has been badly mistreated since Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Our brief glimpse of Michael Edwards as the legendary General John Connor was a taste of something which carried great promise.
The idea that eventually the audience would be given more than that glimpse, that we would get a movie with the myth become flesh, was a tantalizing prospect to all Terminator fans.
The problem?
The studios, with their failed attempts at utilizing the character, had turned John Connor into a McGuffin (a device that drives the plot, but has no real relevance). They had created a figure to drive the story along, but it was a hollow one which lacked credibility and substance, and as a consequence they destroyed him.
If the studios didn’t know how to put the character to its best use – why not reenvision him?
No, I don’t mean make John Connor the villain (hello there Terminator Genisys)…
Why not make him the anti-hero? In Terminator 2 we saw Edward Furlong play John Connor with a rebellious reluctance – he was just a kid, he didn’t want to be the fabled leader of humanity.
In Terminator 3 we saw Nick Stahl enlarge upon Edward Furlong’s child John; we saw a young man who had suffered, who had lost out on… well, life. He’d missed the humdrum, cookie-cutter, mind-numbingly dull, normal stuff. He’d missed out on experiencing life at an organic pace.
He too was the reluctant leader.
So why not use that? The struggle, the complications, the turmoil and heartache, and finally… the acceptance and resilience.
He could have been played differently – in that glimpse of John Connor on the battlefield, as played by Michael Edwards, we never really knew what kind of a person he truly was.
John Connor is / was a character who could have had a rich and engrossing rise to power, but instead… he got shot in the chest at a tiki bar as a child.
The end?
Leave a comment…
14 Comments
I think not. If a character can rise up and show his/her worth, then they will take the new role. (The King is dead, long live the King). A bit like Arnie’s terminator. Time for a change, if alas it ever happens.
The best sequel to T2 was The Sarah Connor Chronicles. They did it right. Why couldn’t the movie producers see that?
The comics T2: Nuclear Twilight actually gives a little glimpse into the kind of hard-ass military commander that is not afraid of sacrificing his troops if it means Skynet gets it’s teeth knocked out or Skynet is gonna be too busy/distracted to notice the other deep-strike teams passing through it’s defenses.
soviet-style if necessary.
Realistically written General Connor is definitely an anti-hero warlord, he has to be.
John Connor is important, Danny Ramos can be another commander, even the one who saves JOHN’s life, since Sarah saved Dany’s life, the war has several commanders, doesn’t it? The problem is that they cut the thread because the actors of 3, 4, 5 did not look at all like the originals JOHN and KILE were completely changed.IN THE EPILOGUE OF Terminator Genesis Skynet LEAVES A TIME MACHINE ON, DOING THAT THIS ALTERS. Terminator 2, 3 and Genesis are the ones that have the best effects, maybe not a good script. What some fans wanted to see is that war in the future with neon lights and laser beams, diversity of robots, destruction of skynet and the destruction of the time machines so that the Terminators cannot travel. Or that a Terminator travels back in time and repairs the timelines. They could even make JOHN revive as the Genesis terminator becomes a good guy and starts saving humans. I would like John Connor to play him NORMAN REEDUS, who looks like an adult version of JOHN.
In a new Terminator film there could be other mechanical forms of Terminators, remember other movies of the time such as THE THING, LEVIATHAN, FROM BEYOND, VIRUS, POLTERGEIST 2, REANIMATOR BEYOND, METAMORPHOSIS: The ALIEN FACTOR the robot TERMINATORS are not a piece that It must be repeated, (such as the spider-man suit) it is like a new form of life, a Mutant Machine that evolves, for example with 2 destroyed terminators and one injured, it could repair itself and give rise to a more giant terminator, Like the robots in the film Virus 1999 or a terminator could hide two attack arms in its stomach. Do you remember Kuato from TOTALL RECALL? Or Butcher from Dead Head (1988)? or Goro from Mortal Combat?
I would also like a TERMINATOR versus PREDATOR film where SKYNET wants the alien technology of the Yaujtia, and the PREDATORS a TERMINATOR skull.
Another interesting influence for a future Terminator film could be the Species and Species 2 movie, Eve and The Two-Headed Monster have interesting designs.
Sorry, I almost forgot, the design of the Rev-9 seemed very well done, it’s like the male version of the TX that I liked a lot too. On the other hand, the script for Terminator Dark Fate was a bit unstructured, the situation of Sarah with the forces of order, first they capture her, and then they help her by giving her the electromagnetic pulse. Did the armed forces know something about the invasion of Terminators? I didn’t understand that part very well.
The problem is you can’t remove a crucial and beloved character only to replace them with someone who has no equity.
There was years of equity in John Connor, in that, his character was intrinsically tied to the Terminator brand. He fit a very special part of the mythology and the fact that a huge part of him remained undefined, allowed him to cast a shadow over the franchise because it felt like whatever stories remained untold about John Connor, were epic.
In killing him off with such a lack of regard for his worth, Cameron and Miller communicated to the fans that they didn’t see John as character…but only an archetype. Whatever value John Connor had to millions of Terminator fans and the potential stories that could feature him, was dismissed without so much as one person questioning if it would harm the brand….
Really, what happened here was Tim Miller got the opportunity to decimate the Terminator mythology and he took it, with glee. He was out to end the saga as we knew it, all before the credits even rolled. Then, they got Cameron to endorse it and lend a few meager ideas to a film he himself, never would have made, had he got the chance to make T3 in the nineties.
John Connor was always a very valuable character and the reality is, they couldn’t adequately replace him. He and Skynet personified the original mythology. Taking them out was the end of Terminator.
Honestly, I don’t hate the idea of the story moving forward without Kyle, Sarah, John or even Arnold, but to replace John or Sarah with something that is not new but the same thing just with boobs or a more gritty haircut is not enough. Marcus Wright or Arnold’s Terminator itself should have been the new main character instead of chopping their films up to bring Linda Hamilton back or justify John having a role in the future war. These films can’t have everything. Either continue the old characters story WELL or ditch them to focus on the new characters.
Passing of the torch films or legacy characters are just a half assed compromise. They think if the old characters approve of the new characters right before they die of plot contrivance, we will be okay with Dani or Miles Morales taking over. But if they are the same but worse and we’re designed out of a PR stunt we certainly won’t. John never ceases to be interesting no matter what version you look at as long as the context and execution does it’s job.
Genisys and Dark Fate are proof that when you make a film to make fun of your audience’s attachment to the franchise you just look like a bigger more pretentious version of Kanye West claiming “I made that bitch famous”.
Hell, nothing was stopping T3 from just have Kate Brewster be the protected and a new Terminator and Protector being sent after her but they had to tie John in for the sake of it didn’t they?
Wasn’t enough that McG was telling a story about a criminal finding redemption in the apocalypse, no he HAD to feature Kyle Reese and have Christian Bale takeover half the movie as JC.
Could have maybe (I stress maybe) made a torn conflicted JC in Genisys hunt his family who then manage to break through the programming and save their son Return of the Jedi style but nope, they just made clickbait for trailers.
And Dark Fate?…I don’t think there was anything new or interesting they could have done unless a Terminator was sent back to kill Arnold’s son and the twist came later that the Rev9 was sent to kill Arnold actually. Just imagine that Judgement Day comes to pass and Arnold actually forms the resistance in this new future to make up for mistake of dooming humanity. THAT is a new idea. THAT continues his story. Hell throw Sarah in there as someone who is hunting him seperately from the Rev9 and you could have a good movie!
I intend to make a AAA Terminator game soon and one of the things that annoys me the most with this franchise’s writers is their assumption that if a character has been written poorly then we need to get rid of them instead of oh you know, just writing them properly. No matter what form the game I make takes (Future War open world filled with laser guns, blue night skies and RPG elements and customization with a focus on story and developing you bond with fellow soldiers and having a Skynet react to how you fight the war) i am never gonna be that guy saying “can’t have that in here, it was done poorly in a bad movie!” cause then I would be devoid of ideas and screwing over any hope for those out there to see an idea like Marcus or Carl done right.
This series just needs to learn that John Connor is only as good as his narrative parents are raising him to be. Long live JC and cast Sam Witwer or Garret Hedlund in the role already.
Dani Ramos could easily send another super soldier back in time. In this case to the beach where John Connor was assassinated and intercept Carl the Draper. It would cancel out that timeline.
I think John Connor is the story. Dark fate could have been amazing! but the first thirty seconds did it for me. John’s story could have evolved in that movie with a better storyline, It could also have introduced new fresh faces to the franchise. Dark fate just feels like the terminator and T2 mixed together with Skynet replaced. If they ever make another movie please make the real T3 for the fans! or just play T2 with the alternate ending and that’s the end of the franchise two awesome movies ain’t bad!
That killing scene is well done but it suppose to be only Sarah’s bad dream. After that horrible dreaming she wakes up(like in T2 nuclear dream) and everything ok. Replacing John should have done differently. I would have liked it that Dark Fate movie would have shown how he lives on and no terminator thouches him never again. He did his job in T2 destroying Skynet saving 3billion lives and he deserves to be hero. Dark Fate should have treat him that way.
One thing I want say. In T1 movie John sent Kyle back to protect Sarah. Kyle and Sarah made a mistake. They made love. That activity erased right John. John sent Kyle back only for protecting. He wouldn’t have thought that Kyle and Sarah make love. Edward Furlong is new John. At the beginning of T2 there we see right John who sent Kyle back. T-1000 have sent back to prevent new John destroying Skynet in T2. It fails to do that. But T1000 have to kill John anyway. Because this prevent this destroying Skynet action.IMHO.